2005 Draft - stock increase/decrease

[AnThGrt]

Well, what I was saying was the regrets were on DT to not do a better job of convincing him to stay in NA. Probably not much he could do, though.

Trust me DT tried pretty darn hard to convince him so did everyone I think. I mean I am sure he DT wanted he could of forced him to stay but it just shows that he has class and lets players have their requests. Trust me you aren't the only one who wished he would of stayed here....

 

[Kafka]

Round 1

1. Sidney Crosby: Up

How could Crosby's stock increase when he was the first player drafted?

 

[Enoch]

How has Downie's stock risen? He has been in two very controversial incidents since his draft date....I think he stays right where he is similar to Rob Schremp's fall in 04.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Jonathan Sigalet, who was drafted in the fourth round, has been impressive in Providence. His stock has probably gone up.

 

[aspin]

As of their play to date, the draft would go something like this (top 15) (basing it particularly towards WJC play):

1) Sidney Crosby (hmm)
2) Jack Johnson (great play in college and World Juniors)
3) Bobby Ryan (playing great in the OHL)
4) Gilbert Brule (been injured, but been great in games he's played)
5) Luc Bourdon (showed awsome all-around play at the WJC)
6) Marc Staal (played awesome at WJC, but wasn't great on offense)
7) Tuukka Rask (tremendous play at WJC has people in awe)
8) Marek Zagrapan (has played excellent this year in WJC and the Q)
9) Ryan Parent (showed phenominal speed and defense at WJC)
10) T.J. Oshie (might even be a bit too low, considering his WJC play)
11) Steve Downie (showed grit and heart at WJC)
12) Niklas Bergfors (playing great in Ahl this season and in WJC)
13) Guillaume Latendresse (so much talent in the Q)
14) Devin Setoguchi (has been playing phenominal this year in the "dub")
15) Benoit Pouliot (mediocre play this year in both WJC an "o" causes him to slip)


left out:
Carey Price (inconsistent at best this year in Tri-City)
Jack Skille (quite disappointing at WJC)
Brian Lee (shows big lack of physicality)
Anze Kopitar (haven't heard a peep about this guy since the draft)
Sasha Pokulok (don't even know how he made the top 15)
Ryan O'Marra (although good as a grinder, shows limited offensive upside)

Sorry, you forgot Cogliano sho should be ahead of Downie, Pouliot and Oshie and maybe Lantendresse and Setoguchi. Guys Downie will be a 3rd liner at best. He had the benefit of being someone Sutter loves. DId you see in on the PP? He cannot stickhandle with his head up. He always stood at the corner of the net and when he received the pass he would look right down and bobble it for a few seconds when there was a guy cross crease wide open. That happened all tournament. Yes he has desire and strength but when he reaches the next level those assets will be reduced when he is playing against men. Those types of players can be drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds. It is not like he is lighting it up on a very good team in the OHL. He is not a first rounder.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

How has Downie's stock risen? He has been in two very controversial incidents since his draft date....I think he stays right where he is similar to Rob Schremp's fall in 04.

Downie has supposedly played very well this year so in terms of what he has done on the ice (not on other people) has increased. All the incidents though would mean he would go in a similar place.

 

[MXD]

Sorry, you forgot Cogliano sho should be ahead of Downie, (...) Guys Downie will be a 3rd liner at best. He had the benefit of being someone Sutter loves. DId you see in on the PP? He cannot stickhandle with his head up. (...) Yes he has desire and strength but when he reaches the next level those assets will be reduced when he is playing against men. Those types of players can be drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds. (...) He is not a first rounder.

Well... I think players are drafted for what they could bring to a team, considering a guy who brings nothing (like a gifted offensive player soft like Anna Nicole Smith's belly circa 1999 who just can't spell defense, doubled with a bad temperament which means he will NEVER play a game in the NHL) should be drafted lower than a guy who brings something (like your average 3rd line grinder, something that projects to be Steve Downie). So you could say Downie was a "safe" pick for the Flyers.

A player that Steve Downie could be compared to is Steve Begin (since I live in Habland this is a rather easy comparison). There are players who play more a Downie-like game than Begin, but let's stick to Begin. He was drafted in 2nd round, 40th overall in 1996. One could argue that his ceiling wasn't high enough, so he wasn't drafted in the 1st round, and could be half-right. On the other hand, you had a skilled, high ceiling guy who had the potential to be a franchise player, drafted 4th OA on that year who played something like 3 or 4 games in the NHL. Do you think the team that drafted this guy, hindsight 20/20, would still do the same today, considerring they're bottom of the barrel currently, or draft a "safer" guy? (Begin is not the best example, and 1996 draft might go down as one of the worst crop EVER, even if very good players came out in later rounds). Considering only the two first rounds on this year, Begin would be very likely to go 1st round, hindsight 20/20 wise.

The point is : probably, someone in Philly thinks they're loaded enough in young talent to draft a guy like Downie in the 1st round.

 

[Pothier]

1st Round

1. Sidney Crosby: Up
2. Bobby Ryan: Up
3. Jack Johnson: Even
4. Benoit Pouliot: Even
5. Carey Price: Down
6. Gilbert Brule: Up
7. Jack Skille: Down
8. Devin Setoguchi: Down
9. Brian Lee: Down
10. Luc Bourdon: Up
11. Anze Kopitar: ?
12. Marc Staal: Up
13. Marek Zagrapan: Even
14. Sasha Pokulok: Down
15. Ryan O'Marra: Even
16. Alex Bourret: Even
17. Martin Hanzal: ?
18. Ryan Parent: Up
19. Jakub Kindl: Even
20. Kendal McArdle: Even
21. Tuukka Rask: Up
22. Matt Lashoff: Up
23. Nicklas Bergfors: Up
24. TJ Oshie: Even
25. Andrew Cogliano: Up
26. Matt Pelech: Even
27. Joe Finley: ?
28. Matt Niskanen: Even
29. Steve Downie: Up

 

[aspin]

Well... I think players are drafted for what they could bring to a team, considering a guy who brings nothing (like a gifted offensive player soft like Anna Nicole Smith's belly circa 1999 who just can't spell defense, doubled with a bad temperament which means he will NEVER play a game in the NHL) should be drafted lower than a guy who brings something (like your average 3rd line grinder, something that projects to be Steve Downie). So you could say Downie was a "safe" pick for the Flyers.

A player that Steve Downie could be compared to is Steve Begin (since I live in Habland this is a rather easy comparison). There are players who play more a Downie-like game than Begin, but let's stick to Begin. He was drafted in 2nd round, 40th overall in 1996. One could argue that his ceiling wasn't high enough, so he wasn't drafted in the 1st round, and could be half-right. On the other hand, you had a skilled, high ceiling guy who had the potential to be a franchise player, drafted 4th OA on that year who played something like 3 or 4 games in the NHL. Do you think the team that drafted this guy, hindsight 20/20, would still do the same today, considerring they're bottom of the barrel currently, or draft a "safer" guy? (Begin is not the best example, and 1996 draft might go down as one of the worst crop EVER, even if very good players came out in later rounds). Considering only the two first rounds on this year, Begin would be very likely to go 1st round, hindsight 20/20 wise.

The point is : probably, someone in Philly thinks they're loaded enough in young talent to draft a guy like Downie in the 1st round.

Why would you use a first round pick on a player that has a ceiling of only a 3rd liner? My goodness you could get a million Begin's now for a 7th round pick. Heck teams are waiving those type of players. The thing is Downie has a ceiling of a 3rd liner or so and he may never reach it. We will revist this in 2-3 three years time.

 

[Pilot]

Why would you use a first round pick on a player that has a ceiling of only a 3rd liner? My goodness you could get a million Begin's now for a 7th round pick. Heck teams are waiving those type of players. The thing is Downie has a ceiling of a 3rd liner or so and he may never reach it. We will revist this in 2-3 three years time.

Downie is a warrior. Flyers stole him. There are players that you want on your team and Downie is one of them. If his WJC performance didn't display his promise I don't know what else to say.

What is a third line, fourth line these days anyway ... it is finding chemistry between three guys. Is Mike Knuble one of the best three players on the Flyers right now ? No ... but he is playing with the best two. You tell me that Downie wouldn't compliment Gagne and Forsberg or any two talented players and you're wrong. He may never be a natural and flashy goal scorer but he will score and pound bodies, work hard, show his under rated play making ability and make big plays. The kid is a warrior and smart hockey player. He is the guy you want on your team.

He is going to be a work horse NHL'er ... Shows up for big games and is tough to play against.

 

[montreal]

For the Habs I would say both their OHL picks have increased their stock in the early part of the season. Kostitsyn leads all rookies in scoring with 52 pts. D'Agostini leads his team in scoring and is in the top 20 in the O with 55 pts, not bad for a 2nd year player and walk on.

Latendresse I would think would be higher but Price would go down imo.

Mikus I can't really say much about, he seems to be doing ok playing in the Slovak elite league, 9th on the team in scoring, the youngest player on the team at 18. Disappointing WJC's although I didn't get the chance to see him, going pointless is not a good way to help your country.

Paquet I also cant say since he's the only one I haven't seen play yet. As one of the last picks in the draft he can only go up! well sort of.

 

[clay]

1st Round

8. Devin Setoguchi: Down
24. TJ Oshie: Even

Devin Setoguchi is second in the WHL with 52 points on a rather mediocre point production team. He is a workhorse, and IMO, got robbed of a spot on the World Junior team, so his stock has certainly not gone down.

Out of ANYONE in this draft, T.J. Oshie has probably improved his stock the most. He was unarguably the best player for the U.S. in the world juniors, and worked his *** off, so I don't know where you came up with the idea that his stock has stayed the same.

 

[Steve466]

Downie is a warrior. Flyers stole him. There are players that you want on your team and Downie is one of them. If his WJC performance didn't display his promise I don't know what else to say.

What is a third line, fourth line these days anyway ... it is finding chemistry between three guys. Is Mike Knuble one of the best three players on the Flyers right now ? No ... but he is playing with the best two. You tell me that Downie wouldn't compliment Gagne and Forsberg or any two talented players and you're wrong. He may never be a natural and flashy goal scorer but he will score and pound bodies, work hard, show his under rated play making ability and make big plays. The kid is a warrior and smart hockey player. He is the guy you want on your team.

He is going to be a work horse NHL'er ... Shows up for big games and is tough to play against.

Sounds like you just described about a hundred NHL players. And two hundred AHL players. I like Downie at all, but wow, you really, really like him.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Trust me DT tried pretty darn hard to convince him so did everyone I think. I mean I am sure he DT wanted he could of forced him to stay but it just shows that he has class and lets players have their requests. Trust me you aren't the only one who wished he would of stayed here....

Really? The vibe I got from the Kings board during the whole saga was that everyone was so glad he was going to play in the SEL.

 

[time]

Am I the only one here who thinks Jack Johnson was outplayed by Staal, Emelin and maybe Parent and Bourdon in the WJC. He's a great talent, but I just don't get the over the top hype. He was minus 6 in the tourney after all.

 

[Thirty One]

Am I the only one here who thinks Jack Johnson was outplayed by Staal, Emelin and maybe Parent and Bourdon in the WJC.

yes

 

[Teemu]

1. Jack Skille - falling
2. Michael Blunden - rising
3. Dan Bertram - even
4. Niklas Hjalmarsson - injured
5. Nathan Davis - even
6. Denis Istomin - falling
7. Brennan Turner - don't know
8. Joe Fallon - rising

Don't know enough about our other picks yet

 

[Jaded-Fan]

How could Crosby's stock increase when he was the first player drafted?

He has played as well as only three (that I can think of) players in my living memory have done at his age. A lot was expected of him. He has done more. He has kept up with Ovechkin who has had one of the more amazing rookie season as a 20 year old in my memory. Huge difference between 18 and 20. I would love to see who GM's would project as better between the two in 5 years after half a season. Ovechkin has been amazing but for being 18 and doing what he has done, I would think that many here would be surprised at the answer. And that means an up in my book too.

 

[King'sPawn]

How could Crosby's stock increase when he was the first player drafted?

Because the question isn't who would be picked higher/lower... the question is the stock (value) of a player going up or down.

 

[Pilot]

Sounds like you just described about a hundred NHL players. And two hundred AHL players. I like Downie at all, but wow, you really, really like him.

Wayne Gretzky and Bobby Clarke like him a lot too - How can't you.
He will fight for a roster spot next fall and be a top two-way pest/force in the next three years.
Difference with Downie and others is that he doesn't lack the stuff you cannot teach. All he lacks is huge offensive upside, but seems like he skates, shots and passes well enough, and he goes to the right places on the ice. His defense and play along the boards is great and he plays with a lot of heart.
He is a winner and a game breaker.

Steve Downie = Boot Leather. Tough and goes in the muck.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Bergfors - Up
Frazee - Down
Fraser - Down
Davis - Level/Up (Solid camp)
Fayne - Level
Zimmerman - Level
Sundstrom - Up

2004
Zajac - Up
Mikhailishin - Down
Disher - Level
Leblond-Letourneau - Down
Eckford - Up
Perkovich - Level (Project)
Klimov - Level

2003
Parise - Up
Vrana - Up
Khomutov - Level
Tarkir - Down
Smith - Up (simply amazing this year)
Tenute - Up (Different organization)
Bondarev - Down

 

[Digger12]

Considering he's got 61 points in 36 games as an 18 year old for quite a bad team, has outscored Guillaume Latendresse and is only two points back of a guy like Zagrapan...I'd say if the draft were done over again, Slava Trukhno would be AT WORST a mid level 2nd round pick. A potential draft steal by the Oilers.

 

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

No questions asked: the highest riser is Nicklas Bergfors.

 

[XX]

No questions asked: the highest riser is Nicklas Bergfors.

What about Yandle? QMJHL top defenseman. +41. Its not even close.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

No questions asked: the highest riser is Nicklas Bergfors.

I don't see him riseing all that much, for a sniper he has a really weak shot. His placement is excellent but he needs a little more snap to be a consistant 30+ goal man.