1st Round Draft of Combined 2001, 02, 03 Drafts, Pretty Cool

[Winston Wolf]

fleury should be in everyones top 10, why would he be drafted 1st overall in one of the deepest drafts in the last few years if he wasnt top 10 caliber

Fleury wasn't picked 1st overall because he was the best player, he was picked 1st because the Penguins wanted a goalie. Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were easily rated much higher at that time. Also, don't forget how Giguere was on everybody's minds at that time, which could be why the Penguins were so desperate to get Fleury.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Fleury wasn't picked 1st overall because he was the best player, he was picked 1st because the Penguins wanted a goalie. Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were easily rated much higher at that time. Also, don't forget how Giguere was on everybody's minds at that time, which could be why the Penguins were so desperate to get Fleury.

Or maybe it was because Fleury was touted by scouts as the best goalie to come around in 10 years?

Fleury not in anyone's top 5, muchless top 10 is in insult.

 

[Jacob]

Fleury wasn't picked 1st overall because he was the best player, he was picked 1st because the Penguins wanted a goalie. Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were easily rated much higher at that time..

No they weren't. At least not "easily".
THN rated Staal ahead of Fleury, but stated "the gap was very slim". I recall RLR having Fleury on top of their list.

It came down to team needs. The Panthers didn't need a goalie. I'm sure they fielded dozens of offers for the pick, but only one of them included Nathan Horton.

 

[jmelm]

Fleury wasn't picked 1st overall because he was the best player, he was picked 1st because the Penguins wanted a goalie. Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were easily rated much higher at that time. Also, don't forget how Giguere was on everybody's minds at that time, which could be why the Penguins were so desperate to get Fleury.

I don't know where you get "easily rated much higher at the time".

THN had Fleury 2nd behind Staal, and Red Line Report had Fleury 1st overall and said he is the best player in the draft.

People can make a strong argument for the other 3 you mentioned, but to say they were easily rated much higher is just wrong.

 

[helicecopter]

how is fleury not in there?? also, what about horton instead of hemsky

Maybe he thinks there are ten better prospects than him.

 

[helicecopter]

top15 first rounders:

1 kovalchuk
2 Nash
3 Bouwmeester
4 Pitkanen
5 Spezza
6 Lehtonen
7 Staal
8 Fleury
9 Zherdev
10 Hemsky
11 Horton
12 Chistov
13 Kostsitsyn
14 Parise
15 Phaneuf


AHH, this game is more difficult than funny!
(i guess if had more opportunities to see them play it would be different )

 

[Bandwagoner]

Fleury wasn't picked 1st overall because he was the best player, he was picked 1st because the Penguins wanted a goalie. Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were easily rated much higher at that time. Also, don't forget how Giguere was on everybody's minds at that time, which could be why the Penguins were so desperate to get Fleury.

You make a very good point about the whole Giguere situation. However, I do think it's very difficult to say that Zherdev, Horton, or Staal were rated higher than Fleury on just the basis alone that I find it extremely difficult to compare goaltenders and skaters. Sure everyone is saying that the RLR had Fleury number one on their list, but that could have just been because he was much more beyond the next tender in the draft, and many scouts were indecisive about who to choose between the three you've stated, as well as Michalek and Vanek.

 

[IFK]

My top -30.

1. Ilya Kovalchuk
2. Rick Nash
3. Jason Spezza
4. Joni Pitkänen
5. Kari Lehtonen
6. Jay Bouwmeester
7. Eric Staal
8. Nikolai Zherdev
9. Marc-Andre Fleury
10. Tuomo Ruutu
11. Nathan Horton
12. Ales Hemsky
13. Dion Phaneuf
14. Dan Hamhuis
15. Stanislav Chistov
16. Stephen Weiss
18. Milan Michalek
19. Hannu Toivonen
20. Steve Eminger
21. Pierre-Marc Bouchard
22. Carlo Colaiacovo
23. Alexander Semin
24. Zach Parise
25. Mikko Koivu
26. Mike Komisarek
27. Tomas Vanek
28. Ryan Whitney
29. Braydon Coburn
30. Andrei Kastsitsyn

 

[BabyBennettov]

Every list where Jay Bouwmeester isn't in the top-5 is a joke !

The guy was for sure the best in his draft class or maybe second behind Lethonen, and now just because Rick Nash is leading the NHL in goal-scoring everybody think he is one if not the best player of the last 3 drafts ! Just watch Jay-Bo's play and Nash's play and now we can compare !

There is no way that Pitkanen is ahead of Jay-Bo too ! He has one more point than Jay this year... playing on a much better team and being able to jump because he has the rights to make mistakes ! Jay is Florida's first-defenseman so he has to be reliable and he can't join the rush like Pitkanen can, just because he has so much more responsabilities !

Spezza, Kovalchuk can be ahead of Jay-Bo, even Lethonen and Fleury for the die-hard fans (Fleury isn't in my top-5) but there is now way Bouwmeester sleps out of the top-5 !

 

[VanCanuck]

1) Kovalchuk
2) Nash
3) Bouwmeester
4) Fleury
5) Pitkanen
6) Spezza
7) Phaneuf
8) Staal
9) Horton
10) Ehrhoff

 

[HockeyGuy1011]

Every list where Jay Bouwmeester isn't in the top-5 is a joke !

The guy was for sure the best in his draft class or maybe second behind Lethonen, and now just because Rick Nash is leading the NHL in goal-scoring everybody think he is one if not the best player of the last 3 drafts ! Just watch Jay-Bo's play and Nash's play and now we can compare !

There is no way that Pitkanen is ahead of Jay-Bo too ! He has one more point than Jay this year... playing on a much better team and being able to jump because he has the rights to make mistakes ! Jay is Florida's first-defenseman so he has to be reliable and he can't join the rush like Pitkanen can, just because he has so much more responsabilities !

Spezza, Kovalchuk can be ahead of Jay-Bo, even Lethonen and Fleury for the die-hard fans (Fleury isn't in my top-5) but there is now way Bouwmeester sleps out of the top-5 !

AMEN TO ALL OF THAT!!! thats exactly how i feel...what would j-bo's stats be like if he was on philly??

also, striahgt up, who is better lehtnonen or fluery?? i have never seen lehtonen play and fleury hasnt been THAT impressive this year, so i dont know

 

[HockeyGuy1011]

1) Kovalchuk
2) Nash
3) Bouwmeester
4) Fleury
5) Pitkanen
6) Spezza
7) Phaneuf
8) Staal
9) Horton
10) Ehrhoff

to be blunt, HORRIBLE, sorry...lehtonen isnt even on the list, ive barely ever heard of this guy erhoff...i can bet there is atleast 20 guys better than him from what ive read and seen...and where is zherdev or hemsky...phaneuf is NOT better than both staal AND horton
just my honest opinons

 

[IFK]

Every list where Jay Bouwmeester isn't in the top-5 is a joke !

The guy was for sure the best in his draft class or maybe second behind Lethonen, and now just because Rick Nash is leading the NHL in goal-scoring everybody think he is one if not the best player of the last 3 drafts ! Just watch Jay-Bo's play and Nash's play and now we can compare !

There is no way that Pitkanen is ahead of Jay-Bo too ! He has one more point than Jay this year... playing on a much better team and being able to jump because he has the rights to make mistakes ! Jay is Florida's first-defenseman so he has to be reliable and he can't join the rush like Pitkanen can, just because he has so much more responsabilities !

Spezza, Kovalchuk can be ahead of Jay-Bo, even Lethonen and Fleury for the die-hard fans (Fleury isn't in my top-5) but there is now way Bouwmeester sleps out of the top-5 !

This is Pitkänen´s first year in NHL. Bouwmeester play his second year and he play 5 min. more than Pitkanen per game. Philadelphia has scored only 11 goal more than Florida so that is not big deal which team they play when we talk their points. Jay-bo is his team first-defenseman (like you say) and Pitkänen is Philadelphia´s 3th or 4th defenseman. Thats why Jay-bo gets more situation do points than Pitkänen.

 

[BabyBennettov]

This is Pitkänen´s first year in NHL. Bouwmeester play his second year and he play 5 min. more than Pitkanen per game. Philadelphia has scored only 11 goal more than Florida so that is not big deal which team they play when we talk their points. Jay-bo is his team first-defenseman (like you say) and Pitkänen is Philadelphia´s 3th or 4th defenseman. Thats why Jay-bo gets more situation do points than Pitkänen.

I don't know where you picked up your stats but Philly has 29 more goals than Florida and Philly has 18 less goals allowed !

Would you take Bouwmeester's supporting cast ahead of Pitkanen's ? You are that crazy ? If Jay would have Joni's teammates and responsabilities, Jay would be in for an All-star contention ! Jay has to play defense because nobody on that Panthers team can play defense ! Joni can join the rush because the other guys are their to play defense !

Pitkanen played against men for about 3 seasons whereas Jay has beginning playing against older guys since last year !

Nothing against Pitkanen because he would be in my top-5 or top-6... but never say that Pitkanen is better than Jay, never !

Jay is quiet, humble, great and that's why Jay is "Lidstrom-iest" because he will go unnoticed for a lot of years but still will be recognize as one of the best ever when he'll retire ! Pitkanen ? He'll be a Rob Blake... a contender a lot of times for the Norris and one of the best of his days... but not ever !

 

[HockeyGuy1011]

Still, no one has answered my question. Who is better straight-up and will be better in the long run?? M-A Fleury or Kari Lehtonen??
I have no idea really so I'm asking you out there in message board world. LOL

 

[jacketracket*]

I don't know where you picked up your stats but Philly has 29 more goals than Florida and Philly has 18 less goals allowed !

Would you take Bouwmeester's supporting cast ahead of Pitkanen's ? You are that crazy ? If Jay would have Joni's teammates and responsabilities, Jay would be in for an All-star contention ! Jay has to play defense because nobody on that Panthers team can play defense ! Joni can join the rush because the other guys are their to play defense !

Pitkanen played against men for about 3 seasons whereas Jay has beginning playing against older guys since last year !

Nothing against Pitkanen because he would be in my top-5 or top-6... but never say that Pitkanen is better than Jay, never !

Jay is quiet, humble, great and that's why Jay is "Lidstrom-iest" because he will go unnoticed for a lot of years but still will be recognize as one of the best ever when he'll retire ! Pitkanen ? He'll be a Rob Blake... a contender a lot of times for the Norris and one of the best of his days... but not ever !

Never say that Pitkanen is better than Bouwmeester? Never?

With all due respect, these guys have collectively played 2 NHL seasons between them. It's a little early to assume that EITHER will be thought of as "one of the best ever" when they retire, no?

 

[Sampe]

Still, no one has answered my question. Who is better straight-up and will be better in the long run?? M-A Fleury or Kari Lehtonen??
I have no idea really so I'm asking you out there in message board world. LOL

It's too soon to tell right now, it depends on so many things. They've been playing in different leagues. Fleury is used to smaller rinks, Lehtonen is in the middle of his first season in NA. They're both excellent positioning and technique wise. Fleury is quicker and more acrobatic while Lehtonen is bigger. It comes down to how strong they are mentally; meaning abilities to focus, handle pressure etc. We'll see about that in the future.

Oh, and that's just assuming they're placed in similar situations. And they're not.

 

[BabyBennettov]

Never say that Pitkanen is better than Bouwmeester? Never?

With all due respect, these guys have collectively played 2 NHL seasons between them. It's a little early to assume that EITHER will be thought of as "one of the best ever" when they retire, no?

For you it may be early ! But for me and a handful of experts (like Pierre McGuire and Bob McKenzie)... Jay will be one of the best !

 

[Liquidrage*]

For you it may be early ! But for me and a handful of experts (like Pierre McGuire and Bob McKenzie)... Jay will be one of the best !

You're clearly basing that not on what JBo has done in the NHL, but what he's done in the Jr's.

I'd love to see what kind of numbers Pitkanen would put up in a system where he got to play 24 minutes a night and didn't have to play mistake free to keep his ice time. He'd have a hell of a lot more points then he does now thats for damn sure.
You clearly have no idea what Pitkanen's responsibilities are if you think JBo would be in All-Star contention playing for the Flyers.

You're last post was absultely ludicrious. I think there's lots of room for debate in the Pitkanen-JBo comparisions. But you're clearly not interested in debate. You just want to rant about your presupposed biases.

 

[BabyBennettov]

You're clearly basing that not on what JBo has done in the NHL, but what he's done in the Jr's.

I'd love to see what kind of numbers Pitkanen would put up in a system where he got to play 24 minutes a night and didn't have to play mistake free to keep his ice time. He'd have a hell of a lot more points then he does now thats for damn sure.
You clearly have no idea what Pitkanen's responsibilities are if you think JBo would be in All-Star contention playing for the Flyers.

You're last post was absultely ludicrious. I think there's lots of room for debate in the Pitkanen-JBo comparisions. But you're clearly not interested in debate. You just want to rant about your presupposed biases.

I'm open to debate... That's not a problem, I have my opinion and I'll sitck to them, and I'll respect yours !

Remember that if Pitkanen played 24 minutes, he would play it on a Panthers squad ! Not an a Flyers one, so please don't say he would have huge numbers !

 

[jacketracket*]

I'm open to debate... That's not a problem, I have my opinion and I'll sitck to them, and I'll respect yours !

Remember that if Pitkanen played 24 minutes, he would play it on a Panthers squad ! Not an a Flyers one, so please don't say he would have huge numbers !

I do think Liquidrage has a point about Pitkanen's playing time/responsibilities.

Hasn't Hitchcock sat Pitkanen a few times, over defensive lapses? As deep a D as the Flyers had, he could hold ice time over Pitkanen's head.

Can the Panthers afford to sit Bouwmeester?

 

[Liquidrage*]

I'm open to debate... That's not a problem, I have my opinion and I'll sitck to them, and I'll respect yours !

Remember that if Pitkanen played 24 minutes, he would play it on a Panthers squad ! Not an a Flyers one, so please don't say he would have huge numbers !

I will say he'd have larger numbers. It's common sense. Not only would Pitkanen get more ice time, he'd have a lot more opportunity to jump into the play and play his game. Right now, he plays Hitch's game, and he needs to play it near flawlessly or he sits.

If you look at Pitkanen compared to his teamates, Pitkanen leads the TEAM in +/-. He is second on the team in scoring for a defenseman but leads them in points per minutes played.

JBo's numbers on Florida are no better then a Pavel Trnka or Mike Van Ryn.

So Pitkanen stands out on a team with Dejardins, and Johnsson and Ragnarsson on the blueline.

JBo blends in Van Ryn or Trnka.

Is there anyway to know for sure what they'd be like if they swtiched places? Not really.
But some of the stuff you said earlier was flat out rediculous and over opinionated and furthermore, comments like calling other people's list a joke simply because they don't agree with your opinion shows no respect for other people's opinions.

And it's not like a great case can be made for JBo being in the top 5 of this list based on his play in the NHL. You'd have to allmost soley focus on his play prior to the NHL to warrant that.

 

[Traitor8]

All your rankings are a joke if Andrei Kostsitsyn and Mike Komisarek aren't in your list!

Chris Higgins, Alexander Perezhogin should get some recognition too!

 

[HockeyGuy1011]

All your rankings are a joke if Andrei Kostsitsyn and Mike Komisarek aren't in your list!

Chris Higgins, Alexander Perezhogin should get some recognition too!

HABS FAN!! lol

well id like to thank everyone who responded to my thread...i think it was a cool idea and we sure found some interesting responses...

as for j-bo vs pitkanen, only time will tell, as of right now they are very close

 

[BabyBennettov]

I will say he'd have larger numbers. It's common sense. Not only would Pitkanen get more ice time, he'd have a lot more opportunity to jump into the play and play his game. Right now, he plays Hitch's game, and he needs to play it near flawlessly or he sits.

If you look at Pitkanen compared to his teamates, Pitkanen leads the TEAM in +/-. He is second on the team in scoring for a defenseman but leads them in points per minutes played.

JBo's numbers on Florida are no better then a Pavel Trnka or Mike Van Ryn.

So Pitkanen stands out on a team with Dejardins, and Johnsson and Ragnarsson on the blueline.

JBo blends in Van Ryn or Trnka.

Is there anyway to know for sure what they'd be like if they swtiched places? Not really.
But some of the stuff you said earlier was flat out rediculous and over opinionated and furthermore, comments like calling other people's list a joke simply because they don't agree with your opinion shows no respect for other people's opinions.

And it's not like a great case can be made for JBo being in the top 5 of this list based on his play in the NHL. You'd have to allmost soley focus on his play prior to the NHL to warrant that.

Obviously you never watch Bouwmeester, because Florida gets no recognition !

Imgine if Pitkanen played for an awful team for 24 minutes a night, and was asked to play defense because he is about the only defenseman who can play defense, do you think he would join the rush as often ? That's the point that you don't want to understand !

Everybody called Tanguay a leach, so why Pitkanen isn't one... he is the future on D for the Flyers team so they are going to treat him well and let him develop by not hurting his confidence ! Pitkanen doesn't have the same role that Jay has on his team, and he wouldn't do better if he had !