1994 Canucks playoffs mvp

[Canucks1096]

Who do you think the most valuable player for the Canucks in 1994 playoffs and why? My opinion Bure was mvp. 2 McLean 3rd Linden 4th Courtnall

Bure had 16 G 15 A 31 P. 8 points in 7 games vs Cal. 8 points in 5 games vs Stars. 7 points in 5 games vs Leafs. 8 points in 7 games vs Rangers. He was leading scorer for the Canucks in the whole playoffs and for every round except one. He was very clutch as well. Canucks played 6 elimination games that spring game 5 to 7 vs Flames and Rangers. In those games Bure had 6 goals and 10 points. Bure was main reason why the Canucks were able to force a game 7 both times. Leafs and Stars Canucks beat them only 5 games. Bure in total had 10 goals. Main reason Canucks beat them in 5 games is because of Bure. He was best player in those big games.

To User VS. Please let me know all the things that Linden did?

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[Big Phil]

I think the general idea is that if the Canucks win then it is McLean. I really don't know how you can go wrong with McLean or Bure. Because if you think of it, let's say the Canucks win, then chances are Bure scores that penalty shot because the Rangers were actually losing the game at that particular time. So either way if the Canucks win you would have to think that both Bure and McLean would have taken a big role in that.

Linden follows them and he completes that trio of Canucks who had a great run. There might be a harder case to give him the MVP but it still isn't outlandish either.

I never liked the Canucks, but I have to admit, I have warm memories of that 1994 team and I think many of us do.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Kirk McLean game 1 is up their with the best goaltending performance in the stanley cup finals of all time.

 

[Killion]

I never liked the Canucks, but I have to admit, I have warm memories of that 1994 team and I think many of us do.

Huh? Why not? Whats not to like about the Canucks going back to 70/71... HC Hal Laycoe, Captain Orland Kurtenbach.... Dunc Wilson & Charlie Hodge... Bobby Schmautz, Pat Quinn... Rosaire Paiment & Gary Doak.... all through the 70's & 80's some extremely interesting & seriously talented players. That first & 2nd decade of the clubs existence, interesting cast of characters, and some real depth in terms of history with connections to the old WHL teams, those old timers, many still around back in the day & their counterparts from the semi-pro Lacrosse teams that were once extremely popular out here, Junior Hockey & Lacrosse along with the CFL making for quite the fascinating & colorful sports culture.

 

[The Panther]

I would tend to go with Bure. I know McLean was superb in game one of the Finals, but they lost that series anyway. I don't think they would have got as far as they did without Bure to break some games open. When he was on the ice, there was a 'fear' factor for Toronto (and New York) that helped push the Canucks into the Finals.

Having said that, I think Bure could have been a little better than he was in the Finals. Not that he was bad at all, but he wasn't as great as he could have been. Had he scored one or two more goals, maybe the Canucks hoist that Cup. Such is the fine-line nature of winning and losing.

 

[Canucks1096]

I would tend to go with Bure. I know McLean was superb in game one of the Finals, but they lost that series anyway. I don't think they would have got as far as they did without Bure to break some games open. When he was on the ice, there was a 'fear' factor for Toronto (and New York) that helped push the Canucks into the Finals.

Having said that, I think Bure could have been a little better than he was in the Finals. Not that he was bad at all, but he wasn't as great as he could have been. Had he scored one or two more goals, maybe the Canucks hoist that Cup. Such is the fine-line nature of winning and losing.

One or two goals more for Bure that might of been the difference. The four series Bure got

3 goals vs Flames
6 goals vs Dal
4 goals vs Tor
3 goals vs Rangers

When Bure averaging around a goal a game in the Leafs and Dal series Canucks win in 5. When he doesn't the series goes to 7

 

[The Panther]

One or two goals more for Bure that might of been the difference. The four series Bure got

3 goals vs Flames
6 goals vs Dal
4 goals vs Tor
3 goals vs Rangers

When Bure averaging around a goal a game in the Leafs and Dal series Canucks win in 5. When he doesn't the series goes to 7

Well, he didn't get a goal until the fifth game of the Calgary series, which is when the Canucks started surging back. Starting then, he scored 13 goals in 12 playoff games, with the Canucks going 10W-2L.

They won the last Toronto game (just) without Bure getting a goal, but he scored only 1 goal in the first four games against NYR in the Finals, when the Canucks went down three games to one. So, yeah, it stands to reason that when he was scoring goals they were winning.

A Bure-stat that jumped out at me is that in the '94 Finals, he had the third-most penalty minutes on the team (behind only Tim Hunter and Sergio Momesso)!

 

[Canucks1096]

Well, he didn't get a goal until the fifth game of the Calgary series, which is when the Canucks started surging back. Starting then, he scored 13 goals in 12 playoff games, with the Canucks going 10W-2L.

They won the last Toronto game (just) without Bure getting a goal, but he scored only 1 goal in the first four games against NYR in the Finals, when the Canucks went down three games to one. So, yeah, it stands to reason that when he was scoring goals they were winning.

A Bure-stat that jumped out at me is that in the '94 Finals, he had the third-most penalty minutes on the team (behind only Tim Hunter and Sergio Momesso)!

Bure had 15 PIM. That's was because he got 5 min major and game misconduct in game 3. The game misconduct count as 10 PIM. Bure didn't get any other penalty in that series.

 

[The Panther]

Bure had 15 PIM. That's was because he got 5 min major and game misconduct in game 3. The game misconduct count as 10 PIM. Bure didn't get any other penalty in that series.

Okay, thanks. I was wondering if it was something like that....!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

before you go any further down this road, i want you to re-read this thread from when you bumped it (after it being dormant for five years) to when people stopped responding to you—http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/why-was-trevor-linden-so-popular.1213003/

as for what linden did, i told you in the other thread. he did everything. i’ll be more specific: he carried the heaviest defensive load on the team among forwards, matched up against gilmour and messier, double-shifted when things got real; and when they put him, bure, and courts together, or when he double shifted with bure and adams, he gave bure the kind of center he almost never had elsewhere in his career, who did all the little things and dirty work and still scored at an elite level.

i’m not even a linden guy. bure is my favourite player of all time, and i loved cliffy and courts, those were my guys. i would answer this thread 1. mclean, 2. bure, 3. linden extremely close behind. but there is a reasonable argument for linden at #2, as i said in the other thread. game 6, he only has one point but is on the ice for 3/4 goals. wins the faceoff to set up brown’s first goal. ok, there’s his assist. but watch his work on brown’s second goal. that play, or linden’s contributions to bure’s game 7 double OT goal was 94 linden in a nutshell. if you can’t see that, we are watching different sports.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think value can take forms that aren’t scoring goals or assists. and i think linden, on top of 25 points, contributed an awful lot of little things that made the team as successful as it was. one example: without watching the video, tell me what caused vancouver to gain posession of the puck for bure’s game 7 OT goal. and then tell me how brown’s pass found such a clear path to a streaking bure.

okay, now watch the video. and pay attention to linden forcing that turnover on the forecheck and then notice how after the pass bure is able to split zalapski and kruse because they expect patrick to pick off the pass, only he can’t because linden subtly interferes with him.

that one play is three brilliant performances. brown’s quick and accurate head man, bure’s amazing burst of speed out of nowhere plus handling that pass and of course the deke, and linden doing the dirty work. linden had so much value as the glue guy that year. but he didn’t pick up a point there, did he?

No Linden didn't get a point. Babych got the puck after Kruse got rid of the puck.

I kind of disagree with Linden forcing the turn over. Adams was behind Kruse and Linden was coming to the boards. Kruse made the play to dump the puck in before Linden made that hit. Kruse is a stay home guy. He doesn't make those fancy passes. He just dumps the puck off boards all the time. When you watch kruse you can tell he wanted to just backhand the puck out before Linden was close to him.

we are saying the same thing aren’t we? linden on the forecheck made kruse rush his clear and it went right to babych, which obviously was not what he wanted but exactly what the canucks wanted.

There are 2 different Linden. Up to 1996 The 70 point regular season and the playoffs ppg that didn't play in a lot of defensive situation and was more gritty than later on his career. But Linden didn't use his grit that often.

After 1996 when He started to play center more and got better defensively and played in more defensive situation. But Linden became a 40 point player.

you have said this in several other places but literally no one else believes this to be true.


and ftr, i thought courtnall was the best canuck in the finals.

 

[Canucks1096]

you have said this in several other places but literally no one else believes this to be true.


and ftr, i thought courtnall was the best canuck in the finals.

This is fact. Most people dont believe me because people in this city believe what they want to believe. Linden can do no wrong in this city because his name is Linden.

So which part is not true. 70 points scorer up 1996? Check his stats. 40 point player after 1996? Check his stats. From 91 to 95 Linden regular linemates was the life line with Courtnall and Ronning except 94 and 95 playoffs. . So Linden played in a lot defensive situation. So Ronning 5-8 160 pound center was out against top players with Linden in those defensive situation? So Ronning lining against Gretzky and Yzerman? Look at the some old YouTube videos 94 Bure Craven was first PK unit and then afterwards it Hunter McIntyre. Linden played some PK here and there as well but Bure was main guy on PK and not Linden. 95 Bure and Courtnall were main 1st PK unit together. 95/96 When Bure was out Linden to start to play regularly on PK. This is not my opinion it's fact.

About linden grit. So do You think Linden was more gritty before 1996 and after 1996? Do you live in Vancouver? if you do go to Vancouver Public library and go to sports section. Go find some Canucks Yearbooks. Under Linden Profile it will say "Linden never took his game another level because he always smaller than size. Needs to play more grit. A few of those books said that.

Linden does have the skill to play more tough and with more grit but he doesn't use that skill often. Most Van fans have selective memory and just remember a few Linden gritty moments and that's it

 

[Canucks1096]

before you go any further down this road, i want you to re-read this thread from when you bumped it (after it being dormant for five years) to when people stopped responding to you—http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/why-was-trevor-linden-so-popular.1213003/

as for what linden did, i told you in the other thread. he did everything. i’ll be more specific: he carried the heaviest defensive load on the team among forwards, matched up against gilmour and messier, double-shifted when things got real; and when they put him, bure, and courts together, or when he double shifted with bure and adams, he gave bure the kind of center he almost never had elsewhere in his career, who did all the little things and dirty work and still scored at an elite level.

i’m not even a linden guy. bure is my favourite player of all time, and i loved cliffy and courts, those were my guys. i would answer this thread 1. mclean, 2. bure, 3. linden extremely close behind. but there is a reasonable argument for linden at #2, as i said in the other thread. game 6, he only has one point but is on the ice for 3/4 goals. wins the faceoff to set up brown’s first goal. ok, there’s his assist. but watch his work on brown’s second goal. that play, or linden’s contributions to bure’s game 7 double OT goal was 94 linden in a nutshell. if you can’t see that, we are watching different sports.

STANLEY CUP FINALS; Rangers Savor Canucks' Slip While Avoiding the Same

Linden matching up against Messier and Gilmour. You are partly right But Linden couldn't get the job done with Messier. Quinn used the McIntyre line instead.

For the PK please if you have time go and watch parts of 1994 playoffs games on youtube and you clearly show Bure and Craven and were on 1st PK unit and Hunter McIntyre 2nd. To save you time I will give the examples 2nd goal in game 7vs Rangers Graves scores on pp. Bure and Craven was out there. 3rd goal by Messier. Hunter and McIntyre was out there. On linden shorthanded goal bure and Craven on the ice. delayed penalty Linden came on as the 5th player and scored. Pk Linden was not big part of that.

Linden ppg in game 4 of the finals. Bure was the one that digged the puck out in the corner and won the battle for the puck. Because the pp was set up and Linden was able to score. Linden game 6 ot goals vs flames. Bure was able to get the puxk through through and Linden was able to score. Game 1 vs Rangers Bure quickly got the puck out and sent Adams away. You are giving me all little things Linden does. I can do the same for Bure. You are telling me linden been on ice for 3 goals in game 6. Bure finish the playoffs with +8 and Linden +3. If Linden was and what he was doing was leading to so much goals. Don't you think his plus/minus be higher?

For the record Canucks scored 6 ot goals that year and Bure was on the ice for 5 of them. I think Courtnall was the 2nd best player.

 

[puckpilot]

Linden does have the skill to play more tough and with more grit but he doesn't use that skill often. Most Van fans have selective memory and just remember a few Linden gritty moments and that's it

I'll take the word of Cliff Ronning who as actually there and went to battle with Linden on how gritty he was over some write up in some year book. Those aren't always accurate or up to date because players evolve. The draft preview write up on Peter Forsberg said he'd never be a big scorer.

Also the article below probably explains why he was deployed differently in the finals. Broken ribs.

Linden heroic in 1994 Stanley Cup Final

You want to say he never lived up to his potential in the regular season, fine. I tend to agree, but when the playoffs came around, that completely changed. In his first stint with the team in 79 playoff games he had 80pts. In the playoffs he took his game to another level.

 

[Canucks1096]

I'll take the word of Cliff Ronning who as actually there and went to battle with Linden on how gritty he was over some write up in some year book. Those aren't always accurate or up to date because players evolve. The draft preview write up on Peter Forsberg said he'd never be a big scorer.

Also the article below probably explains why he was deployed differently in the finals. Broken ribs.

Linden heroic in 1994 Stanley Cup Final

You want to say he never lived up to his potential in the regular season, fine. I tend to agree, but when the playoffs came around, that completely changed. In his first stint with the team in 79 playoff games he had 80pts. In the playoffs he took his game to another level.

No Quinn changed the matchup to McIntyre vs Messier instead of Linden starting in game 3. Linden played with Broken ribs in his last 4 games. Therefore Before the rib injury Quinn alrady used McIntyre vs Messier instead. The reason why it was switch Because Linden couldn't do the job on Messier.

I agree he does bring his game to another level. But still doesn't make him more valuable than Bure.

Teammates tends to exaggerate when making comments about teammates. Mogilny once said Chuborov is going to be a star.

I will say He plays more gritty in the playoffs than the regular season. But all Linden fans you guys make it sound like he is Cam Neely/Shanahan out there.

So If Linden played so gritty. Always doing all the little right. Combined with his size and above average shot. Then it doesn't make sense why he doesn't produce more offensively. It's because Linden just wasn't that gritty and wasn't doing all the right things on the ice. It's not rocket science.

 

[puckpilot]

So If Linden played so gritty. Always doing all the little right. Combined with his size and above average shot. Then it doesn't make sense why he doesn't produce more offensively. It's because Linden just wasn't that gritty and wasn't doing all the right things on the ice. It's not rocket science.

Well for starters, part of it was Quinn's obsession with getting that big center. Linden was an all star winger, but Quinn decided to mess around with putting him at center in 92. In effect that began the transition of turning an all star winger that had room to grow offensively into two-way center who's upside in terms of point production probably suffered.

How is Ronning's account exaggerated? Did Linden not have cracked ribs and torn cartilage? Did he not get shots so he could play? Did he not play the final 4 games of the Cup final that went 7 games with cracked ribs and score both goals for the Canucks in game 7? Do you have a conflicting account that disproves what Ronning said?

In addition are you saying that no account of any teammate discussing another teammate can be trusted or should be given any credence because, according to you, they tend to exaggerate?

 

[Canucks1096]

Well for starters, part of it was Quinn's obsession with getting that big center. Linden was an all star winger, but Quinn decided to mess around with putting him at center in 92. In effect that began the transition of turning an all star winger that had room to grow offensively into two-way center who's upside in terms of point production probably suffered.

How is Ronning's account exaggerated? Did Linden not have cracked ribs and torn cartilage? Did he not get shots so he could play? Did he not play the final 4 games of the Cup final that went 7 games with cracked ribs and score both goals for the Canucks in game 7? Do you have a conflicting account that disproves what Ronning said?

In addition are you saying that no account of any teammate discussing another teammate can be trusted or should be given any credence because, according to you, they tend to exaggerate?

You are making excuses for Linden again. Last post about Linden was deployed differently because of Rib injury when before that Quinn stopped using him out against Messier. He did start learning to play center in 1992 but for the most part he was on the life Ronning was the center with Linden and Courtnall. Before 1994 playoffs Linden didn't play much center. Most of the 1994 and 1995 playoffs He played center. 1996 Linden he started on the wing with Berenek at center and Gelinas on LW. When Ridley got hurt Linden moved back to center and stayed there until he got traded in 1998. So stop making excuses and say he was a 2 way center. Before 1994 he hardly played center

For the record linden played center the most in 1996. After 15th game mark Linden played center the whole season with R Courtnall and Gelinas and Linden had a career high 80 points. So his highest point total was at center. So linden playing center has nothing to do with him not having high point total. Nice try

So based on you we should trust whatever teammates said? If it were true that only small part of being tough. Hitting/winning battles board/protecting puck along the boards/crashing the nets ate example of tough/gritty. Linden doesn't do all consistently and that's the reason why Linden never took his game to another level in the Regular season.

 

[Canucks1096]

To User PuckPilot and Vadim sharifijanov. Both of you guys had said a few inaccurate things about Linden in your post. I had to correct you guys a few times. I think you guys Should know now that Linden wasn't as good as you thought he was

 

[puckpilot]

To User PuckPilot and Vadim sharifijanov. Both of you guys had said a few inaccurate things about Linden in your post. I had to correct you guys a few times. I think you guys Should know now that Linden wasn't as good as you thought he was

I never stated how good I though Linden was. I'm just disputing the claim he didn't have any grit. And I cited an article where a teammate gave a pretty significant example of Linden being gritty.

But you dismiss it as exaggeration, even though if you just take the facts of the account on their own, it doesn't deminish the example in the least.

 

[tony d]

That was a magical run that spring for that team, imagine if they had pulled off the upset over the Rangers. To me Kirk Mclean was the MVP that spring for the Canucks.

 

[Big Phil]

Huh? Why not? Whats not to like about the Canucks going back to 70/71... HC Hal Laycoe, Captain Orland Kurtenbach.... Dunc Wilson & Charlie Hodge... Bobby Schmautz, Pat Quinn... Rosaire Paiment & Gary Doak.... all through the 70's & 80's some extremely interesting & seriously talented players. That first & 2nd decade of the clubs existence, interesting cast of characters, and some real depth in terms of history with connections to the old WHL teams, those old timers, many still around back in the day & their counterparts from the semi-pro Lacrosse teams that were once extremely popular out here, Junior Hockey & Lacrosse along with the CFL making for quite the fascinating & colorful sports culture.

Being a Leafs fan, Vancouver isn't really a natural team to cheer for. But that 1994 team was hard to dislike.

I would tend to go with Bure. I know McLean was superb in game one of the Finals, but they lost that series anyway. I don't think they would have got as far as they did without Bure to break some games open. When he was on the ice, there was a 'fear' factor for Toronto (and New York) that helped push the Canucks into the Finals.

Having said that, I think Bure could have been a little better than he was in the Finals. Not that he was bad at all, but he wasn't as great as he could have been. Had he scored one or two more goals, maybe the Canucks hoist that Cup. Such is the fine-line nature of winning and losing.

8 points in 7 games. He did his part. I guess when you go to a 7th game and your team hits the post with precious time left in a one-goal game you can always ask for just a bit more from your superstars but I think the truth is the Rangers were the better team either way.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

This is fact. Most people dont believe me because people in this city believe what they want to believe. Linden can do no wrong in this city because his name is Linden.

So which part is not true. 70 points scorer up 1996? Check his stats. 40 point player after 1996? Check his stats. From 91 to 95 Linden regular linemates was the life line with Courtnall and Ronning except 94 and 95 playoffs. . So Linden played in a lot defensive situation. So Ronning 5-8 160 pound center was out against top players with Linden in those defensive situation? So Ronning lining against Gretzky and Yzerman? Look at the some old YouTube videos 94 Bure Craven was first PK unit and then afterwards it Hunter McIntyre. Linden played some PK here and there as well but Bure was main guy on PK and not Linden. 95 Bure and Courtnall were main 1st PK unit together. 95/96 When Bure was out Linden to start to play regularly on PK. This is not my opinion it's fact.

About linden grit. So do You think Linden was more gritty before 1996 and after 1996? Do you live in Vancouver? if you do go to Vancouver Public library and go to sports section. Go find some Canucks Yearbooks. Under Linden Profile it will say "Linden never took his game another level because he always smaller than size. Needs to play more grit. A few of those books said that.

Linden does have the skill to play more tough and with more grit but he doesn't use that skill often. Most Van fans have selective memory and just remember a few Linden gritty moments and that's it

i should have been specific. it is not true that linden’s scoring falling off a cliff coincided with him becoming a good defensive player.

where did i talk about linden’s PKing?

 

[Canucks1096]

I never stated how good I though Linden was. I'm just disputing the claim he didn't have any grit. And I cited an article where a teammate gave a pretty significant example of Linden being gritty.

But you dismiss it as exaggeration, even though if you just take the facts of the account on their own, it doesn't deminish the example in the least.

True but I just want to clarify a few things on what you said wasn't accurate. "Linden playing center that impacted his point total but the fact he had his best season offensively playing center almost full-time in 96.

"Linden was used differently because of his injury". The fact is Quinn switched to McIntyre vs Messier before Linden injury

This city everybody likes to make excuses for Linden which is Ridiculous.

 

[Canucks1096]

i should have been specific. it is not true that linden’s scoring falling off a cliff coincided with him becoming a good defensive player.

where did i talk about linden’s PKing?

You wrote Linden carried the heaviest defensive role among forwards. To me when someone said that, it means that players is playing against top lines, being out there for the defensive zone faceoffs. PK is part of a defensive role and that's why I have those examples. I gave that link that prove McIntyre was out against Messier instead of Linden for most of the finals. Linden was out against Gilmour and Modano for the most parts. I will give you that but Quinn wasn't really playing chess match and got Linden out them every single shift. Craven and McIntyre was out there as well for some shifts. Half of Flames series Linden was still playing RW. A lot of your post from before is not even accurate.

So the Linden that played RW on the life line with Courtnall and Ronning from 91 to 95 Regular season and wasn't getting much Pk time was the same defensively than the Linden who start play center full time in 96/97 and having a lot PK time?

 

[Canucks1096]

i should have been specific. it is not true that linden’s scoring falling off a cliff coincided with him becoming a good defensive player.

where did i talk about linden’s PKing?

So back to Bure vs Linden.

Your double shifting ice time example. Sorry Quinn double shift Bure the most. Go find game 4 Flames games on YouTube. Before the game started the sports person said Bure been playing 28 mins a game. I am sorry Linden doesnt double shift like that.

All the little thing. Sure Linden does a little things. You gave some examples. Some valid and some not but I can give lot of examples as well.

Playing defensive mins. Linden was out against Gilmour and Modano. For the most part Bure played on the same line. So Bure was out against top line as well. Also Bure plays the first PK unit. Linden didn't get much more or even more defensive load than Bure.

Dig the puck For Bure. If you go to hockey reference almost half of the goals in playoffs He wasn't even on the ice with Linden.

Bure 31 points and 25 points for Linden. Bure 10 elimination points and Linden 6. Each time when Canucks were down 3-1. It was because if Bure that got Canucks back in the series and not Linden.

When I argue I give examples like YouTube videos. Websites. Most Linden fans just generalize

Also when Bure got misconduct in game 3 of the finals. Canucks were 1-0 and out shooting Rangers. After Bure got kicked out. Whole team fell apart and Canucks lost 5-1. That just proves how valuable Bure was. Linden was invisible that night and didn't take over

Sorry there is not much argument for Linden over Bure.