HOH Top 70 Players of All Time (2009) - Part II

TheDevilMadeMe

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Part I is here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/669817

Note: this was originally intended to be an update of the 2008 Top 100 list, but only the top 70 was completed.

This is the final list of the Top 70 Hockey Players as determined by the History of Hockey community at HFBoards:
RankNo.PlayerPosHeightWeightCareer
199Wayne GretzkyC6'0"1851978-1999
24Bobby OrrD6'0"1991966-1977; 1978-1979
39Gordie HoweRW6'0"2051946-1971; 1973-1980
466Mario LemieuxC6'4"2001984-1997; 2000-2006
59Bobby HullLW5'10"1911957-1980
62Doug HarveyD5'11"1901947-1969
74Jean BeliveauC6'3"2051950-1951; 1952-1971
82Eddie ShoreD5'11"1941924-1944
99Maurice RichardRW5'10"1801942-1960
1077Raymond BourqueD6'0"2191979-2001
117Howie MorenzC5'9"1651923-1937
1239Dominik HašekG6'2"1801980-2008
131Jacques PlanteG6'0"1751952-1973; 1974-1975
1433Patrick RoyG6'0"1651984-2003
1521Stan MikitaC5'9"1691958-1980
164Leonard "Red" KellyD6'0"1951947-1967
175Nicklas LidströmD6'2"1901988-2012
185Denis PotvinD6'0"2051973-1988
1910Guy LafleurRW6'0"1851971-1985; 1988-1991
207Phil EspositoC6'1"2051963-1981
2116Bobby ClarkeC5'10"1761969-1984
2211Mark MessierC6'1"2051978-2004
2368Jaromír JágrRW6'2"2401988-Present
241Terry SawchukG5'11"1901949-1970
251Glenn HallG5'11"1901952-53; 1954-1971
2619Bryan TrottierC5'11"1951975-1994
274Fred "Cyclone" TaylorR/D5'8"1651905-1923
284Edouard "Newsy" LalondeC5'9"1681904-1927; 1928
2922Mike BossyRW6'0"1851977-1987
307Ted LindsayLW5'8"1631944-1965
3119Larry RobinsonD6'3"2201972-1992
3219Joe SakicC5'11"1851988-2009
332Viacheslav FetisovD6'1"2151976-1998
3415Milt SchmidtC6"0"1851936-1942; 1945-1955
3517Valeri KharlamovLW5'8"1651967-1981
3619Steve YzermanC5'11"1851983-2006
3730Martin BrodeurG6'1"2051991-1992; 1993-2015
3810Syl Apps, Sr.C6'0"1851936-1948
3929Ken DrydenG6'4"2071970-1979
405Bill CookRW5'10"1721922-1937
4124Chris CheliosD6'1"1901983-2010
4222Brad ParkD6'0"1901968-1985
435Bernard GeoffrionRW5'9"1701950-1964; 1966-1968
4420Vladislav TretiakG6'1"2021968-1984
457/4/11Joe MaloneC5'10"1501910-1924
467Paul CoffeyD6'0"2001980-2001
479Charlie ConacherRW6'0"2101929-1941
487/17Frank BoucherC5'9"1851921-1922; 1926-1938; 1943-1944
4927Frank MahovlichLW6'1"2051956-1978
5016Marcel DionneC5'8"1851971-1989
517Francis "King" ClancyD5'7"1551921-1937
523Pierre PiloteD5'10"1781955-1969
531Clint BenedictG5'11"1851912-1930
541Bill DurnanG6'0"1901943-1950
5516Henri RichardC5'7"1601955-1975
569Andy BathgateRW6'0"1801952-1968; 1970-1971
5722Max BentleyC5'9"1581940-1943; 1945-1954
585Aubrey "Dit" ClapperRW/D6'2"1951927-1947
591Walter "Turk" BrodaG5'9"1801936-1943; 1945-1952
6017Earl SeibertD6'2"1981931-1946
6124Sergei MakarovRW5'11"1851976-1997
627Tim HortonD5'10"1801949-1974
6312Richard "Dickie" MooreLW5'10"1681951-1965; 1967-1968
642Sprague CleghornD5'10"1901910-1928
6521Peter ForsbergC6'0"2051990-2011
664Aurele JoliatLW5'7"1361922-1938
675/16Cy DennenyLW5'7"1681914-1929
6813Boris MikhailovRW5'9"1701965-1981
6917Jari KurriRW6'0"1941977-1998
709Ted KennedyC5'11"1751942-1957
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Listed here are links to all the discussion threads that went into making this list:
Round 2 Voting Results (2009 update) link dead
Round 2, Vote 1 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 2 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 3 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 4 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 5 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 6 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 7 (2009 update)
Round 2, Vote 8 (2009 update) (Note that the results of this round were not added to the list)
 
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bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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I always get upset seeing Hasek ranked as #1 goalie, above Roy or even Brodeur.

i'm not saying Hasek wasn't good, he was. But he never won. As a goalie, I believe you need to win. Position players don't bare as big a burden as a goalie does - a goalie can make a team win by himself, whereas it doesn't really happen with forwards or defense.

Roy helped his teams win often, even Brodeur won quite a bit (on pretty decent teams).

Hasek never won in Buffalo, he only came close. He did win in Detroit, but by that time his contribution was more along the lines of the contribution of Bourque in Colorado. Very important sure, but that team was meant to win.


Goalies like Roy, Plante, Brodeur, Dryden just to name a few all won, and multiple times. I have a lot of trouble having Hasek as #1 when his "winning" just doesn't compare. I'm not saying he has to be below all of these guys, but at least #2, as I think the top guy should be someone whose proven to win no matter what. I'd pick Roy personally.
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Also - I get this was started in 2009, but why is someone like Crosby not on here?

Was the criteria to only look at players whose careers are over (or very well advanced, like Jagr) as opposed to newer/active players?

Because, in my opinion, there's absolutely no way Crosby doesn't break this list. Maybe not near the very top, but definately somewhere on there. Ovechkin too - but especially Crosby.
 

plusandminus

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Mar 7, 2011
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I always get upset seeing Hasek ranked as #1 goalie, above Roy or even Brodeur.

i'm not saying Hasek wasn't good, he was. But he never won. As a goalie, I believe you need to win. Position players don't bare as big a burden as a goalie does - a goalie can make a team win by himself, whereas it doesn't really happen with forwards or defense.

Roy helped his teams win often, even Brodeur won quite a bit (on pretty decent teams).

Hasek never won in Buffalo, he only came close. He did win in Detroit, but by that time his contribution was more along the lines of the contribution of Bourque in Colorado. Very important sure, but that team was meant to win.


Goalies like Roy, Plante, Brodeur, Dryden just to name a few all won, and multiple times. I have a lot of trouble having Hasek as #1 when his "winning" just doesn't compare. I'm not saying he has to be below all of these guys, but at least #2, as I think the top guy should be someone whose proven to win no matter what. I'd pick Roy personally.

Let's see...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Roy
"Roy was selected as Team Canada's starting goalie for the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan. Roy played all six games, but Canada failed to win a medal after a shootout loss to Dominik Hasek and the Czech Republic in the semi-final." Hasek lead his Czechs to the gold medal.
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Well take the career of Ted Kennedy, the last player on the list, and compare it with Crosby's career as of 2009. It's pretty easy to see why the former made the list over the latter.

Well the thread was created in 2009 but had postings on it till 2014. So I was asking what time period do we take into account. Because as of 2009 im ok leaving Crosby off but not as of 2014
 

tarheelhockey

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Feb 12, 2010
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Well the thread was created in 2009 but had postings on it till 2014. So I was asking what time period do we take into account. Because as of 2009 im ok leaving Crosby off but not as of 2014

I see what you're saying... it's a 2009 list that has just been discussed for the past 5 years. I'm sure Crosby would make it if we redid the poll today. Last year we did the top 100 centers and he finished right behind Kennedy, so adding a Hart/Lindsay/Ross/1AS would surely nudge him up into this list.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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The original plan (made almost 4 years ago) was to redo this list as a full Top 100 after we cycled through all the positional lists.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Is every list going to be renewed after a certain period of time?

Haha, I don't know, I'm certainly not looking to admin any renewals at this moment. The "Top 100" lists were the first go at this, and they are kind of the flagship franchise of the board. Plus, it's pretty lame to have a "top 100 list" with only 70 names on it. The original plan involved the idea that doing it by position would help at putting together the most accurate overall players list.

I would imagine that the positional lists aren't going to be updated for a long time.

Other ideas for projects were thrown out there - HOH Hall of Fame (do it right this time), Top Coaches (IMO too hard for anyone who isn't a hardcore ATDer, much less accessible than players for a variety of reasons), Top Single Seasons, etc
 
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bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Would you rank him over Jagr and Forsberg?

:runs away:

Id honnestly think about it.

Its probably hard to argue over Jagr though. But I would have to think about it

Ovechkin is a really good goal scorer. He's inconsistent though. If he can remain consistent in a whole season I think he has potential to be a goal per game player. Which is crazy in todays nhl.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Non-NHL Europeans would be an interesting project for sure.

Personally, I don't see the point of ranking NHL Europeans separate from other NHLers
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Richard ranked too low. Should be number 5. Absolute playoff monster and maybe the most clutch player ever. Hull is a respectable choice but number 5 should be Richard.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Nov 8, 2007
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Haha, I don't know, I'm certainly not looking to admin any renewals at this moment. The "Top 100" lists were the first go at this, and they are kind of the flagship franchise of the board. Plus, it's pretty lame to have a "top 100 list" with only 70 names on it. The original plan involved the idea that doing it by position would help at putting together the most accurate overall players list.

I would imagine that the positional lists aren't going to be updated for a long time.

Other ideas for projects were thrown out there - HOH Hall of Fame (do it right this time), Top Coaches (IMO too hard for anyone who isn't a hardcore ATDer, much less accessible than players for a variety of reasons), Top Single Seasons, etc

More difficult to quantify, as well.
 
Dec 8, 2014
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Paul coffey played with top centers in every team gretzky messier lemieux lindros gilmour francis fedorov yzerman
 

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