17-18 season post-mortem

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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This is a thread for observations you had for the season. Let's not try to derail this thread as disagreements are bound to happen.

The purpose of this thread is not to assign guilt, but to evaluate concerns, critiques and things that you thought were done especially well during the season. This might be a good thread for next season to see if some of this stuff is addressed or if it carries over.

Let's keep in mind that people make mistakes, all the time. This is not a "Mo is a dumbass" thread. Identifying and acknowledging mistakes however is what wise people do.
 

Jerts

Registered User
Mar 5, 2015
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My greatest concern is that we dont have a bonafide 2C anymore.

Little has regressed as predicted.
We dont seem to be grooming Roslovic as a center for some reason.

Aside from that I feel good about the crew coming back.
 
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grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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To kick things off, here are a few observations (right or wrong) that I made:

A) Overall, the season was a success, but why that happened is a bit more complex. I'd say that for the first part of the season it was Helle keeping this team together. Then it was the first line (Ehlers began in the 1st) that was really good + Helle. The first line was always weak defensively however, but they were always able to produce. We won a multitude of games with squeaky one-goal wins.

B) What in the world prompted us to run with ELL for so long is a complete mystery (although they were solid defensively). We did not experiment with combos at all. I think Maurice needs to be more ambitious about figuring out what different line combos are capable of. Just to have that information (in case you need to shake things up to wake up a slumbering second line against Vegas for example). I still look at the garbage time from two years ago and ask why was that time wasted.

The only non-tinfoil idea about why ELL was used for so long is to teach Laine how to defend, but that sounds even more crazy to me. But I don't seriously know much about developing players so maybe I am just missing something.

C) The vets did not see much in the way of consequences when playing poorly, the kids did. I hope this is a planned strategy that bears fruit. Usually you have to choose between popularity and greatness and I hope no-one is choosing poorly like the bad guy from Indiana Jones. Buff did at least seemingly improve his attitude. What a player when he wants to be.

D) I am hesitant to say that Buff and Laine on the PP are a good match. It looks to me there is much more to squeeze out of our power-play. I want it to be the best in the league. Ehlers to PP1 (he can backcheck fast if they start mucking around and provides clean entries).

On to positives:

D) No playoff experience to Conference finals. Whatever problems there are, there are a lot of good stuff too. I have to run now so I'll keep this short. Good ******* job. I want to see even better next year though. I don't see no cup so let's stop playing around.
 

mcpw

WPG
Jan 13, 2015
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repost from April:

"defensemen with >40 GP:

TOI/GP16-1717-18diff
Byfuglien27:2624:23-3:03
Trouba24:5621:54-3:02
Enstrom21:5417:01-4:53
Morrissey19:2820:30+1:02
Chiarot15:1915:02-0:17
Stuart12:27
Postma10:51
Myers22:12 in 11GP21:27
Kulikov17:04
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
gee, buff looks good now that we don't have to pretend that he's doughty anymore.

(stuart hurt the team in ways you wouldn't even think of)"

The 12-minute-pair-less defense was one of the biggest reasons for our defensive improvements IMO.

Let's wait for locker cleanout day and injury updates before we talk about the forwards...
 

cbcwpg

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May 18, 2010
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IMO we don't have a capable backup goaltender. Helly can carry the load, but he does need the occasional break, and what if he ever gets hurt?

- Hutch is done. Will not be given a contract and kind of burnt his bridges.

- Mason as so much thinks about playing hockey ...results in a concussion.

Can any of Berdin, Comrie, Holm, or Phillips step in next season as backup?
 

Teemus Salami

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Sep 28, 2017
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A lot can be said but all in all things were good. I think the biggest takeaway is we seemed to actually find a legit #1 goalie for hopefully many years to come. That cannot be overstated. I'm guessing 75% of teams would kill to have a goalie as good and young as helle
 

Deedog99

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Nov 22, 2016
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What would an educated guess be for true norths playoff take? 9 games $20 million?
 

Afterburner

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We need a secure backup goalie. Helle was solid as #1 but he needs to breathe a bit more and have a game off every once in awhile to prevent burn out. Mason I worry is too far gone with issues, and Hutch just has never been the answer.
 

Afterburner

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A lot can be said but all in all things were good. I think the biggest takeaway is we seemed to actually find a legit #1 goalie for hopefully many years to come. That cannot be overstated. I'm guessing 75% of teams would kill to have a goalie as good and young as helle

And Helle is just going to get better in my opinion. He improved so much in the offseason last year with the addition of some extra goalie coaching, I bet dollars to donuts he'll be back training with him in the off season.
 

CorgisPer60

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And Helle is just going to get better in my opinion. He improved so much in the offseason last year with the addition of some extra goalie coaching, I bet dollars to donuts he'll be back training with him in the off season.

I had a chat with a relatively well-connected person in the NHL and the goalie world, and they more or less confirmed what we suggested for a while - that Wade Flaherty tried coaching Hellebuyck in the same fashion that he coached Pavelec in, without adjusting for differences in technique and style. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a large part the reason why he looked so haphazard last season. Of course, this could be just me reading too much into what relatively small amount that they said about the subject, but they alluded to differences in philosophy for developing and coaching goalies, and how they don't want to step on other people's toes.

Either way, Hellebuyck looked much better this season, and I hope we don't see a regression to 2016-17. Hopefully Mason bounces back and has a respectable season next year.
 

Afterburner

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I had a chat with a relatively well-connected person in the NHL and the goalie world, and they more or less confirmed what we suggested for a while - that Wade Flaherty tried coaching Hellebuyck in the same fashion that he coached Pavelec in, without adjusting for differences in technique and style. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a large part the reason why he looked so haphazard last season. Of course, this could be just me reading too much into what relatively small amount that they said about the subject, but they alluded to differences in philosophy for developing and coaching goalies, and how they don't want to step on other people's toes.

Either way, Hellebuyck looked much better this season, and I hope we don't see a regression to 2016-17. Hopefully Mason bounces back and has a respectable season next year.

Yeah Flaherty should be gone, the last thing we need is anything resembling a Pav clone. I dunno about Mase though but hopefully if he's the #2 for us next year he can stay healthy.
 

sipowicz

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Mar 16, 2011
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IMO we don't have a capable backup goaltender. Helly can carry the load, but he does need the occasional break, and what if he ever gets hurt?

- Hutch is done. Will not be given a contract and kind of burnt his bridges.

- Mason as so much thinks about playing hockey ...results in a concussion.

Can any of Berdin, Comrie, Holm, or Phillips step in next season as backup?

Did we ever figure out what happened to Mason in game 4 of the Knights series, ie. why did Hutch backup?
 

Mud Turtle

Registered User
Jul 26, 2013
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I had a chat with a relatively well-connected person in the NHL and the goalie world, and they more or less confirmed what we suggested for a while - that Wade Flaherty tried coaching Hellebuyck in the same fashion that he coached Pavelec in, without adjusting for differences in technique and style. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a large part the reason why he looked so haphazard last season. Of course, this could be just me reading too much into what relatively small amount that they said about the subject, but they alluded to differences in philosophy for developing and coaching goalies, and how they don't want to step on other people's toes.

Either way, Hellebuyck looked much better this season, and I hope we don't see a regression to 2016-17. Hopefully Mason bounces back and has a respectable season next year.

All the credit for the turnaround goes to his agent and his training team. The took a bi and boring goaltender and turned him into a star. The star we all knew he could be.
 

tbcwpg

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Jan 25, 2011
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1) Special teams improved. The PP with Buff and Laine works because it's an extra threat - hard to respond to both. Throw Scheifele in there and it's very dangerous. You can know the plan as a PKer and still get burned. It's only flaw seems to be a common theme, missing the net.

PK was too passive though. Kept stuff outside and hope Helly saves it. Works when he's on his game. They're also one of the worst teams I've seen in ages at actually getting the puck outside of the blue line.

2) As some have said, 2C is a problem. I think ELL was a thing for so long because there was no one to take that spot. Connor Scheifele Wheeler was working well, and putting someone like Lowry or Copp with them doesn't work either. That's why the Stastny trade worked so well, but it will be hard for him to stay here

3) hard to find fault with much else given how the season went.
 
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Mud Turtle

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Jul 26, 2013
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1) Special teams improved. The PP with Buff and Laine works because it's an extra threat - hard to respond to both. Throw Scheifele in there and it's very dangerous. You can know the plan as a PKer and still get burned. It's only flaw seems to be a common theme, missing the net.

PK was too passive though. Kept stuff outside and hope Helly saves it. Works when he's on his game. They're also one of the worst teams I've seen in ages at actually getting the puck outside of the blue line.

2) As some have said, 2C is a problem. I think ELL was a thing for so long because there was no one to take that spot. Connor Scheifele Wheeler was working well, and putting someone like Lowry or Copp with them doesn't work either. That's why the Stastny trade worked so well, but it will be hard for him to stay here

3) hard to find fault with much else given how the season went.

I think you put Roslovic and Ehlers together and watch some magic happen. Add Laine and you have a fantastic line.
Little can center a more responsible third line.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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I think you put Roslovic and Ehlers together and watch some magic happen. Add Laine and you have a fantastic line.
Little can center a more responsible third line.
I think that might be a possibilty in 2018-19, at some point. It's going to have to come in a pretty sheltered role for awhile though, until Roslo proves he can handle the defensive responsibility at C in the NHL. Which I'm sure will come.

Anyway, this thread is about this last season, ELL was clearly a thing because there was no better option to keep them from getting steamrolled defensively.

I also think it's very possible we see Laine and Ehlers with Scheifele next season..
 

AlphaLackey

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Mar 21, 2013
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And Helle is just going to get better in my opinion. He improved so much in the offseason last year with the addition of some extra goalie coaching, I bet dollars to donuts he'll be back training with him in the off season.

I think there are specific things Hellebuyck can, and will, work on in the offseason. I suspect they will make him better.

I don't see Enstrom or Chairot having a future with the team. I confess that I don't know enough about the other side's defence prospects to know how much burden this puts on Kulikov next year, even if he does stay healthy.

Hutchinson surely isn't the answer, and I think both sides greatly anticipate moving on from there.

Others have said this and I'll add my vote -- if Laine and Ehlers spend a summer working out hard, I think you will see even greater improvements.

All told, I expect us to be a solid contender once again and get another spin at that tournament magic in the spring.
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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Went to see the results for ELL for two seasons (91 games) combined from Corsica:

22 GF, 22 GA. Slightly negative Corsi, slightly negative xGF%.

22 goals in 91 games (this might not be accurate, so let's go with ice time [547.31]) as a second line combined :D. Awesome that they allowed exactly the same. Basically they were a non-factor for the team, in good and in bad.

For comparison, ESL (original) scored 23 goals in 285 min of ice-time, allowed 15. Have the best xGF% even though slightly negative Corsi.

CSW: scored 30 goals, allowed 24 in 621 min of ice-time. Slightly positive corsi, moderately positive xGF%


You can see which combo scores like no tomorrow. Dat 3,5 PPG.
 
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grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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More of that Buff! Quick, accurate passes. Whenever that happens, it's a goal but it doesn't happen enough.

Buff is the man though.
 

Eyeseeing

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Feb 24, 2015
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I had a chat with a relatively well-connected person in the NHL and the goalie world, and they more or less confirmed what we suggested for a while - that Wade Flaherty tried coaching Hellebuyck in the same fashion that he coached Pavelec in, without adjusting for differences in technique and style. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a large part the reason why he looked so haphazard last season. Of course, this could be just me reading too much into what relatively small amount that they said about the subject, but they alluded to differences in philosophy for developing and coaching goalies, and how they don't want to step on other people's toes.

Either way, Hellebuyck looked much better this season, and I hope we don't see a regression to 2016-17. Hopefully Mason bounces back and has a respectable season next year.
Have to jump in here.
Lots of us opined that and got roasted to those who did.....
Who cares Hellebucyk got help and that’s all that matters now.
Bet Hutch’s regression can attributed to that as well

A very awesome season not anything to complain about.
So if we can shore up a healthy backup and pick up a good solid LHD we’ll be good again.
 
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Robinson2187

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Nov 22, 2015
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Best season I've ever seen Buff play but he still gets too many minutes.

Would have liked to see them experiment more on the PP towards the end of the season.


Still the most enjoyable season of hockey ever for me!
 

Joe Hallenback

Moderator
Mar 4, 2005
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They will run with Little as there 2nd line center unless by some miracle they sign Statsny. Little had a down year in points but he does and still does put up 2nd line center numbers.

Buff had his best season at 33. Think about that and the narrative that players can't be as good in there 30s. Maybe he starts to go downhill but I don't see him doing that yet. He is in a good spot playing behind Morrissey/Trouba.

Trouba is the biggest issue facing this team. They have to get that situation sorted out and a lot of things will fall into place.

This team is real good. If they don't do anything and everyone comes back they will be loaded still next year. I think Roslovic is the next player to explode offensively next year.
 
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Jack722

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Mar 3, 2018
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Crow eating for me:

-Maurice IMO showed some capability here. I was really concerned early in the season that we were being carried by Helle. We had very poor shot share in most of our games and our save% was insane. This turned around big time, and it ended up seeming to my eye like we have a pretty good system in place, most importantly with every player being on the same page. But the BEST part of the season for me, from a coaching and mentality perspective, is how strongly we bounced back from things not going our way. Going a goal or two down used to be a death sentence for this team, but we came back from deficits many times and responded super well to defeats too. I think Maurice deserves kudos for this.

-Tanev. Was disappointed to see him on the roster. I thought he was brainless speed, but I was wrong. I really liked his game this year. He was fast, tenacious of course but he was also making good decisions with the puck, seeing guys, making plays and even chipping in goals.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
31,519
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Winnipeg
They will run with Little as there 2nd line center unless by some miracle they sign Statsny. Little had a down year in points but he does and still does put up 2nd line center numbers.

Buff had his best season at 33. Think about that and the narrative that players can't be as good in there 30s. Maybe he starts to go downhill but I don't see him doing that yet. He is in a good spot playing behind Morrissey/Trouba.

Trouba is the biggest issue facing this team. They have to get that situation sorted out and a lot of things will fall into place.

This team is real good. If they don't do anything and everyone comes back they will be loaded still next year. I think Roslovic is the next player to explode offensively next year.
I think we can also expect natural progression by Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers , Connor and Laine. Also hoping Helly has a little bit more to go yet, especially with a healthy backup to take on some of the load. If we don't see a major fall off by the over 30 older core we might just be a real threat.
 

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