GDT: 12/6/17 @ Washington - 7:00 PM, NBCSN

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Blue Liner

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Strongly agree with all the talk about Murphy. He's been really good, and our best dman for a while now. He broke up a bunch of potential odd-man rushes last night. I find that he's very aggressive in his defensive play, but in smart and under control way unlike everyone else. Surprisingly great stick too, and on paper he seems like the type of dman that Q should love.

He deserves a shot with Keith on the top pair, but Q also has to change the way he's using the top four. Make that the shut down pair. I don't understand why he's giving Forsling the type of zone starts and competition that he is. Nice to see what he's capable of I guess, but why not play his players to their strengths a bit, and actually put the team in a better to position to win games? I want to give him a bit of credit and say maybe he learned something from his handling of Leddy, but I doubt that has anything to do with this.

I wouldn't even mind him giving 7 dmen a try again. It probably won't happen though because they lost that game, and Q is bizarrely results over process when it comes to lineup decisions.



Thought it was Pierre. but guess I was wrong. Really strange comment, especially on a night they were talking up Debrincat as future star. It was like something you'd read on here.

Whoever it was, that kind of analysis and take is..well...terrible, and an indictment on hockey analysis as a whole considering that's the lead team of analysts for the US national broadcasts.
 

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Whoever it was, that kind of analysis and take is..well...terrible, and an indictment on hockey analysis as a whole considering that's the lead team of analysts for the US national broadcasts.

I think that's just TV analysis though. It generally all kinda sucks or is at best filler material coming out of HoFers mouth.

The MLB post game stuff during these past playoffs was pretty good though. I particularly really liked Pedro Martinez
 

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Murphy was good last night. He beat Ovechkin to a puck to get an icing call and I think it was the fastest I've ever seen him move.

Stan traded for him for a reason and he's going to pan out well IMHO
 

b1e9a8r5s

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I think that's just TV analysis though. It generally all kinda sucks or is at best filler material coming out of HoFers mouth.

The MLB post game stuff during these past playoffs was pretty good though. I particularly really liked Pedro Martinez

I agree that most sports have that problem to some degree but I think it's particularly bad in the NHL.
 

LordKOTL

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I understand you were being sarcastic but was just continuing the conversation.

Forsling and Rutta haven't been free of blame themselves recently, which shouldn't be surprising given their lack of experience. Growing pains are to be expected. I don't have a problem limiting a guys role in game when they aren't going well, like Keith last night. But Keith still has to carry a large role on this team to be successful.

No worries :)

My personal opinion on the team now and where it stands is this: The team is not going to be successful unless the star players play like star players. IMHO that's the alpha and the omega. So yes, to be successful Keith is going to have to carry a large role, but Keith has to carry that role successfully. Ditto with Toews, Kane, Ani, Saad, & Crawford. You can throw Seabs into that mix if you want but I really think age has caught up with him and the best we can hope for is a reduced role from him. but the other 5 not only have to carry responsibility to be successful, but they have to carry that responsibility well.

If they aren't, we're going to lose. There's no way around it. Forsling, Rutta, and El Gato are nowhere near ready to shoulder the load and carry the team; no more than Keith, Seabrook, Toews, or Kane were in their rookie campaigns.

So, IMHO, if a core player is playing bad in a game--I mean without redemption bad (like Keith), there's two choices: Keep the core player in an let him screw the pooch over and over again in an exercise of futility not unlike an endeavor undertaken by Wile E. Coyote, OR, reduce/eleiminate their icetime and give it to a rookie to work through their growing pains or reward a player doing well. We likely will lose either way, but the rookies get to work through some growing pains with option B. And best case scenario, they end up performing well and we know we can lighten the core player's load if needed, and maybe they learn they are expendable.
 

Clownish

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I think that's just TV analysis though. It generally all kinda sucks or is at best filler material coming out of HoFers mouth.

The MLB post game stuff during these past playoffs was pretty good though. I particularly really liked Pedro Martinez

My favorite live sports analysis in recent years was when Harold Reynolds and Eric Byrnes were on MLB Network just as the evening games were ending around 9 (8 Chicago time). Useful insight, but not too stuffy, stats heavy, or condescending in a "you wouldn't know this, Mr. Host to my right, since you never played". It felt like they were dialed in and gave good predictions on how live, late-game situations would play out.
 

Blue Liner

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I agree that most sports have that problem to some degree but I think it's particularly bad in the NHL.

I agree. Other sports' premier slot/national tv analyst(s) tend to be pretty good, in my opinion. Overall, at least. Hockey is missing that on the national level in the US, in my opinion. Mike Milbury should not be teaching hockey to new fans of the sport. Or..any fans, for that matter. He's not alone.
 

helicon1

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It was Pierre but he corrected himself and said "make it a very good role player". I don't disagree with what he was trying to say. Schmaltz is not a star and was never going to be. He is a secondary player. Think Sharp at his peak. This is not a knock to me. Stars are rare. The Hawks just happen to have 3-4 during their cup runs (Toews, Kane, Keith, Crow (during the 15 season)).

That's fair and I'd actually agree in only applying that term to the elite, high end guys. That's just not the way they use it. Pierre especially spends most of these broadcasts raving about one elite talent or another. If you only watched the national games you'd think each team has half a dozen superstars. It's the reason i included Debrincat, who I've always loved, in my post above. To gush about him or call Robby Fabbri of all people a "special talent", yet Schmaltz is capped at a role player? That's just a dumb opinion, and symbolic of my issue with most of the mainstream hockey media analysis.

Anyway, it's not a big deal for me personally as I watch a lot of the games (national broadcast especially) on mute , but I agree with Blue Liner about the quality of the national broadcast lacking versus other sports. The NBA gets a guy like Jeff Van Gundy or Hubie Brown, we get Mike f***ing Milbury.
 

BK

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That's fair and I'd actually agree in only applying that term to the elite, high end guys. That's just not the way they use it. Pierre especially spends most of these broadcasts raving about one elite talent or another. If you only watched the national games you'd think each team has half a dozen superstars. It's the reason i included Debrincat, who I've always loved, in my post above. To gush about him or call Robby Fabbri of all people a "special talent", yet Schmaltz is capped at a role player? That's just a dumb opinion, and symbolic of my issue with most of the mainstream hockey media analysis.

Anyway, it's not a big deal for me personally as I watch a lot of the games (national broadcast especially) on mute , but I agree with Blue Liner about the quality of the national broadcast lacking versus other sports. The NBA gets a guy like Jeff Van Gundy or Hubie Brown, we get Mike ****ing Milbury.


Fabbri and Schmaltz are in the same category to me. High end role players. Not stars but not 3rd line grinders.
 

DisgruntledHawkFan

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Maybe it's all semantics but not my in my book. That's not a star, but it's not a role player. At least not for me. Again, maybe it's just a matter of everyone's terminology or definition of "role" player.
Right, a 15-15 guy is a role player in my book. A 25-35 guy? That's a damn good top six piece.
 

TheSting

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Jun 22, 2015
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Season is over. Blackhawks are buried i

Murphy has played decent on the offside tho so it was a good experiment. Hawks problems run far deeper. Season is lost. It's good they have struggled up to this point as it will allow Stan plenty time to evaluate things and not be deeked into think this is a playoff team. Blackhawks have some capable bodies that should be attractive at the dead line. Make it happen!
Duncan Keith -4 ...so this means he is now -11 for the seadon...checked out ...loses puck battles...bad positioning ...slow reacting ..mind and will not in games...gone 9ver the cliff.

Best duo tonight. .again Murphy +2 and Seabs +1 ...sure they are given the easier lines and sheltered monutes ..but at least they are not suckling lije Keith and whoever plays with Keith...he has gone over the cliff.

Sharp should retire...useless..nothing left to give.

TOEWS paddingnhiscstaysbon more late meaningless goals. .Kane ...where care you?Saad. ..well it is very Sad ...can we re-do the Panarin deal?


AA ..vetted re-grow the stachche quick
..play has dissipated since he shaved it off.

But what is the point of listing the flaws again and again?

It is a mess in big decline ...gotta syart thinking 9f blowing it alk up and re-forming...Going to take a few years.


However ...Hawks have 2 thong going...going to make all the advanced stats guys squirm...Out to prove corsi et al is not as important as shooting % ..The idea of hockey is to beat the oops goalies..This team clearly has huge problems in doing that ..May set the record in total of shots on goal and missed shot attempts and blocked shot attempts to goals actually scored ..as an all time Futility metric.Keith tge poster boy for this...7 shots on goal...and of course...Zero results...Futile.

And of course Nashville upgraded and doing so well from the acquisition of Turris...only to get even better with Ellis Co. Ing back in soon off injury..Tge strong add to strength. .The Hawks fading into futile get tge golf clubs ready mode. Hard to take.Hard to endure this long season of hell.. Hopes dashed...Stars falling off cliffs...Leaders not leading like they used to...Death..Finished. . Tea m Dynasty out on a puff of smoke ...Doom tuning to gloom..And the realization of no quick fix..


.
..

Agreed on all points! Blackhawks are finished. It's good they have struggled early this year as it will allow Stan and his staff a complete sell off mentality heading into the trade deadline.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Is a fifty to sixty point winger a role player?

For me there are a few levels.

Star: Players you build a team around (Kane, Toews)
Role players: Split into three levels; top 6 (Kessel, peak Sharp, Oshie, Saad, Schmaltz, Fabbri, TT, etc but there is a big range with Kessel types being the top), top 9 (Vermette, Panik, 2015 Sharp), and bottom 6.
Grinders: Barely there players who can be replaced with ease.
 

LDF

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For me there are a few levels.

Star: Players you build a team around (Kane, Toews)
Role players: Split into three levels; top 6 (Kessel, peak Sharp, Oshie, Saad, Schmaltz, Fabbri, TT, etc but there is a big range with Kessel types being the top), top 9 (Vermette, Panik, 2015 Sharp), and bottom 6.
Grinders: Barely there players who can be replaced with ease.
i would like to ask, where would you see D-cat settle in.

i have an opinion which i would say later.
 

DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
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For me there are a few levels.

Star: Players you build a team around (Kane, Toews)
Role players: Split into three levels; top 6 (Kessel, peak Sharp, Oshie, Saad, Schmaltz, Fabbri, TT, etc but there is a big range with Kessel types being the top), top 9 (Vermette, Panik, 2015 Sharp), and bottom 6.
Grinders: Barely there players who can be replaced with ease.

Yea, very different definitions of what a role player is. Sharp and Kessel both had ppg or damn near ppg seasons.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
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Minneapolis, MN
i would like to ask, where would you see D-cat settle in.

i have an opinion which i would say later.

I see Debrincat as a top 6 player. Star? No but a high scoring wing. Do you build around him? Not really but you work around him on the PP with Kane.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
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Trying to boost your post count? Give your opinion imo.
well i didn't want you to think i was trying to kiss up to you and your opinion. but since you cop this attitude, key your opinion to yourself. i am not interested.
 
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