Post-Game Talk: “You’re My Favourite Mistake” Oilers tank game 81 to let AZ close this franchise with a W

[guymez]

The NHL is following the NFL, NBA, MLB, and Premiership League business model to foster a global brand through games in non-traditional markets whether Europe, Asia, or America in the latter case. The NHL is most reliant on gate admission of major North American sports trying to follow the big growth area of diversifying into national revenue. Gate admission will always have a ceiling on it though the NHL reported 97% capacity on 22.5 million fans through the turnstiles with a record $6.2 billion estimated revenue. The real money is in franchising, diversifying revenue through national broadcasting and sponsorships, etc. Decent breakdown here: How Sports Teams, Leagues and Owners Make Money

I don't see any relevance to your false comparison with the Asia league. It's a far inferior league and product so of course it will have sparse interest and attendance. Hockey is growing in participation in the States and we're seeing talent now coming out of non-traditional aka no winter markets as the game's exposure grows and in many cases inspiring youth in fringe NHL markets to pick up the sport.

You also make a good point about the success of the NHL's most recent expansion. Incredible what can happen when you don't knee cap the newbies like old school expansion teams like the Washington Capitals who were brutal forever. But the other salient point is those two franchises built and paid for their own rinks without the public dole. Absorb record expansion franchise fees and still have the financial resources and will to pay for their buildings. As did Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. Bettman's a good Simpson-esque monorail salesman to help bad cop drive the threat of relocation for owners (guys like Katz who tried the nuclear option publicly threatening to move to Seattle away from the cozy monopoly environment of a fanbase that filled its building (above league average ticket pricing) feasting on league historic level of sustained incompetence).

Arizona was an abject failure for a lot of reasons. One positive is the NHL actually learned a lesson and returned a franchise to cozy monopolistic conditions in Winnipeg. That helped drive league gate revenue at higher price points (thanks Canada!) and delivered another Canadian market to feed into securing a record Canadian television contract. Both important as the Canadian franchises have traditionally been backbone revenue drivers for the NHL. The league also finally learned hard lessons in the past with mobile home franchise relocations or merger like Colorado 1; Kansas City; Cleveland; Minnesota 1; Atlanta 1 and 2. Instability effects revenue and franchise value.

The team has moved on from Arizona. But it's also clear the League business partners haven't moved on from the Uber-size Arizona market. Less about the actual bums in seats but rather a big market to include in growing the national revenue pie for cartel owners. I'll keep a little empathy for its fans who lost their team. I still hold hard feelings for the Montreal Expos relocation. It's the emotional connect that's the secret sauce to the success of big business sports entertainment.

I am not so sure that the NHL learned anything about bringing a team back to a Canadian market.
If that were true then this team would be going to Quebec City and not Salt Lake City.
Quebec City has an arena which was completed in 2015 which is bigger than half the arenas in the NHL right now. As I understand the siituation there...there is an ownership group waiting for a team. We pretty much know for sure that it would be completely supported by the fans and the entire community.
I would really like to know if QC was even on the radar?
I strongly suspect that it wasnt.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I am not so sure that the NHL learned anything about bringing a team back to a Canadian market.
If that were true then this team would be going to Quebec City and not Salt Lake City.
Quebec City has an arena which was completed in 2015 which is bigger than half the arenas in the NHL right now. As I understand the siituation there...there is an ownership group waiting for a team. We pretty much know for sure that it would be completely supported by the fans and the entire community.
I would really like to know if QC was even on the radar?
I strongly suspect that it wasnt.

Winnipeg is owned by a billionaire. Quebec City has at varying times talked about government financial support as part of their drive to secure a franchise. They also encroach on Montreal Canadiens monopoly within the province of Quebec. The franchise is being relocated regionally and doesn't require overhauling divisions and established competitive situations.

This was a quick and easy fix with a guy they apparently want in 'the club.' The NHL owners hold their nose in not getting full expansion fees which are climbing. Quite likely with promise of an expansion plan to be accelerated. Big picture for Canada is likely the question of a second team within the giant Toronto greater metropolitan area. Though I imagine more Canada is likely not in their revenue growth vision.

EDIT: It's also a delicate balance with the players as 'partners.' They need to be sold on Salt Lake City let alone if air dropping into a largely francophone city within a heavily taxed Canadian province. This is about quick, smooth, efficient to mitigate any public image issues - whether sale being hung up in court by a deadbeat owner or convincing the team's workforce that if they loved The Book of Mormons, they'll loved Salt Lake City. New CBA is around the corner too.

 

[brentashton]

I am not so sure that the NHL learned anything about bringing a team back to a Canadian market.
If that were true then this team would be going to Quebec City and not Salt Lake City.
Quebec City has an arena which was completed in 2015 which is bigger than half the arenas in the NHL right now. As I understand the siituation there...there is an ownership group waiting for a team. We pretty much know for sure that it would be completely supported by the fans and the entire community.
I would really like to know if QC was even on the radar?
I strongly suspect that it wasnt.

Zero corporate business potential. Provincial government town. I doubt we ever see a team go here.

 

[McSuper]

I didn't see the game so just wondering how Broberg looked ?

 

[oobga]

Vegas and LA both losing today as the way we end up with Vegas in the first round would be so hilariously stupid

 

[guymez]

Winnipeg is owned by a billionaire. Quebec City has at varying times talked about government financial support as part of their drive to secure a franchise. They also encroach on Montreal Canadiens monopoly within the province of Quebec. The franchise is being relocated regionally and doesn't require overhauling divisions and established competitive situations.

This was a quick and easy fix with a guy they apparently want in 'the club.' The NHL owners hold their nose in not getting full expansion fees which are climbing. Quite likely with promise of an expansion plan to be accelerated. Big picture for Canada is likely the question of a second team within the giant Toronto greater metropolitan area. Though I imagine more Canada is likely not in their revenue growth vision.

EDIT: It's also a delicate balance with the players as 'partners.' They need to be sold on Salt Lake City let alone if air dropping into a largely francophone city within a heavily taxed Canadian province. This is about quick, smooth, efficient to mitigate any public image issues - whether sale being hung up in court by a deadbeat owner or convincing the team's workforce that if they loved The Book of Mormons, they'll loved Salt Lake City. New CBA is around the corner too.

Some good points. Especially the point about not needing division realignment.
That said I do not agree regarding the encrouchment on the Montreal Canadiens.
These 2 franchises have already co-existed in the NHL so I dont see that being an issue at this point in time.

 

[guymez]

Zero corporate business potential. Provincial government town. I doubt we ever see a team go here.

I think that you are significantly overstating this point. Winnipeg is a Govt town as well.
I dont see there being a significant difference between the 2 cities in that regard.

To add...from a fan support perspective I would suggest that QC would do better than Winnipeg.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Some good points. Especially the point about not needing division realignment.
That said I do not agree regarding the encrouchment on the Montreal Canadiens.
These 2 franchises have already co-existed in the NHL so I dont see that being an issue at this point in time.

Talk to Geoff Molson about that and if he wants to share revenue and exposure.

 

[guymez]

Talk to Geoff Molson about that and if he wants to share revenue and exposure.

Its been done already and the 2 cities are virtually the same distance apart as Edmonton and Calgary.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Its been done already.
The 2 cities are virtually the same distance apart as Edmonton and Calgary.

That's ancient history 35 years ago. The league has changed dramatically in basically every way. Their expansion is clearly focused on growing into new American markets that help to build their reach within a 332 million population base with greater national level revenue potential. If proximity mattered, there would already be a second franchise in the giant, hockey mad Toronto metropolitan market.

Rich people or frankly most humans don't like to give up monopolistic conditions in business.

 

[guymez]

That's ancient history 35 years ago. The league has changed dramatically in basically every way. Their expansion is clearly focused on growing into new American markets that help to build their reach within a 332 million population base with greater national level revenue potential. If proximity mattered, there would already be a second franchise in the giant, hockey mad Toronto metropolitan market.

Rich people or frankly most humans don't like to give up monopolistic conditions in business.

Well...I think that proximity is a tough argument to make with Edmonton and Calgary being almost the same distance apart.
That being said its clear that a small Canadian Quebec City isnt on the radar for the NHL. Not with so many untapped large American markets potentially available. So I guess we agree on that point.

 

[Oilhawks]

I think that you are significantly overstating this point. Winnipeg is a Govt town as well.
I dont see there being a significant difference between the 2 cities in that regard.

To add...from a fan support perspective I would suggest that QC would do better than Winnipeg.

I agree, which is why I don't see QC or another Canadian team happening. The lack of fan (gate) support for a good Jets team probably doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, even if QC does better, would it be good enough?

 

[guymez]

I agree, which is why I don't see QC or another Canadian team happening. The lack of fan (gate) support for a good Jets team probably doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, even if QC does better, would it be good enough?

I dont think fan support will be an issue in QC though. Much more passionate hockey market than Winnipeg.
That said I do think that the NHL has little reason to consider a team in QC when there are so many much bigger markets available in the US.
Its sad really because most of these southern US markets dont really give a shit about hockey.
Certainly not even close to the same level of passion we would see with a team in QC.
So from a fan perspective (rivalries and just overall hockey passion) Utah is a big time yawn.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Well...I think that proximity is a tough argument to make with Edmonton and Calgary being almost the same distance apart.
That being said its clear that Quebec City isnt on the radar for the NHL. Not with so many untapped American markets potentially available.

There's been uninterrupted existence between the two cities and the economic reality and population growth different between Alberta and Quebec.
Here's a real world example of two teams in different leagues and no direct head-to-head competition viewed geography as a battle to protect turf revenue and market share: Ask not who killed the Expos. It was the Blue Jays

Keep the faith about Quebec City. Think we've exhausted this conversation.

 

[Oilhawks]

I dont think fan support will be an issue in QC though. Much more passionate hockey market than Winnipeg.
That said I do think that the NHL has little reason to consider a team in QC when there are so many much bigger markets available in the US.

I'd have to take your word on the bolded (I'm not saying it's not true, I just don't really know).

The Jets attendance issues seem to have (understandably) peaked with the affordability crisis / inflation. I suspect there's more money in QC to have more fans in seats.

All that being said, some speculation as to why they would never come back is the language barrier causing issues for modern free agents etc (Montreal being a much more metropolitan population).

 

[guymez]

There's been uninterrupted existence between the two cities and the economic reality and population growth different between Alberta and Quebec.
Here's a real world example of two teams in different leagues and no direct head-to-head competition viewed geography as a battle to protect turf revenue and market share: Ask not who killed the Expos. It was the Blue Jays

Keep the faith about Quebec City. Think we've exhausted this conversation.

I think that the Montreal Expos demise was ALL about the stadium.
I really enjoyed the Expos as a kid...sad memories.

Regarding population...once again the Winnipeg comparison is very apt. Almost no difference in the metro population between the 2 cities.Just over 800,000.
I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree here.

 

[guymez]

I'd have to take your word on the bolded (I'm not saying it's not true, I just don't really know).

The Jets attendance issues seem to have (understandably) peaked with the affordability crisis / inflation. I suspect there's more money in QC to have more fans in seats.

All that being said, some speculation as to why they would never come back is the language barrier causing issues for modern free agents etc (Montreal being a much more metropolitan population).

I lived in Winnipeg. I know the city well. They have good fans there but the hockey in Quebec as a whole is on another level. There is just so much hockey history there and its not just with the Canadiens.

Ultimately though it isnt going to matter. QC likely isnt getting a team and for me as a long time Canadian hockey fan I see no upside to that at all.

 

[brentashton]

I think that you are significantly overstating this point. Winnipeg is a Govt town as well.
I dont see there being a significant difference between the 2 cities in that regard.

To add...from a fan support perspective I would suggest that QC would do better than Winnipeg.

Yes, Winnioeg attendance is based more so on individuals vs corporate seat sales. How is that working for them right now? They are struggling to put buns in seats and have put out the warnings in the last few months.

The good thing is they are bankrolled by canadas richest person versus som Arizona grifter, so can weather this until they correct the trend. If they don’t, sayonara.

Bettman isn’t going to entertain the same lack of corporate ticket potential in a second Canadian market in QC.

You suggest To add...from a fan support perspective I would suggest that QC would do better than Winnipeg.
This is based on what facts?

I can not envision any scenario that the NHL goes back to QC..

 

[guymez]

Yes, Winnioeg attendance is based more so on individuals vs corporate seat sales. How is that working for them right now? They are struggling to put buns in seats and have put out the warnings in the last few months.

The good thing is they are bankrolled by canadas richest person versus som Arizona grifter, so can weather this until they correct the trend. If they don’t, sayonara.

Bettman isn’t going to entertain the same lack of corporate ticket potential in a second Canadian market in QC.

You suggest To add...from a fan support perspective I would suggest that QC would do better than Winnipeg.
This is based on what facts?

I can not envision any scenario that the NHL goes back to QC..

I have outlined my thoughts on all this already.

As BEL said above...I think we have exhausted this conversation.